Response to Jake About Protestants & Salvation

Jake:

I FOUND YOUR WEB SITE VERY INTERESTING AND I FOUND SOME USEFUL ARTICLES THERE AS WELL. MY ONLY QUESTION IS THIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN TO ALL NON-CATHOLICS THEN? I HAVE OFTEN SUPPORTED EVANGELICAL CATHOLICS EVEN IF WE DEBATE ON SOME SMALL ISSUES. I AM A BAPTIST AND HAVE TOLD A BAPTIST FRIEND THAT HIS ATTITUDE ABOUT CATHOLICS (HE THINKS ALL CATHOLICS CAN NOT BE SAVED) IS HERETICAL BY NATURE AND I TELL HIM THAT THERE WILL PROBABLE BE ALOT OF CATHOLICS IN HEAVEN AND ALOT OF BAPTISTS IN HELL. HOWEVER I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF CONSERVATIVE BIBLE BELIEVE CHURCHES MOST (DEFINATLEY NOT ALL) BAPTIST CHURCHES, EVANGELICAL FREE AND CALVARY CHAPEL ORGINIZATIONS (ETC) SEEM TO LEAN IN THAT DIRECTION. HOWEVER I AM AWARE OF SOME VERY LIBERAL ORGINIZATIONS SUCH AS THE UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST, HATEFUL ORGINIZATIONS SUCH AS THE BOSTN "INTERNATIONAL" CHURCH OF CHRIST AND CULTS SUCH AS THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND THE MORMONS. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THEM AND HOW DO YOU SEE THE THEOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES FROM SUCH PROTESTANT ORGINIZATIONS AS I LISTED ABOVE.

JUST CURIOUS.

GOD BLESS,
IN HIS NAME ALWAYS

JAKE

Father Joe:

Dear Jake,

I placed several sites on the Internet and it has been some time since I have made a revision. You are probably speaking about the Gehenna Page. If this is the case, please know that it was never directed toward Protestants of goodwill. It was a response to those who attacked Catholic teaching with unadulterated bigotry.

Turning toward your question, you write: "What do you think will happen to all non-Catholics then?" I take it you mean the question of eternal salvation. I think the universal catechism says it better than I could: "'However, one cannot charge with the sin of separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church'" [CCC 818]. "'Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth' are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: 'the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.' Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to 'Catholic unity'" [CCC 819].

Thus, the Catholic Church does NOT teach that all non-Catholics must by necessity go to hell. We leave judgment, for ourselves and others, up to God. As for the view among certain Protestants that Catholics are not true Christians and must go to hell, it is accurate to say that such stances often emerge from some (BUT NOT ALL) fundamentalist churches. The more liberal brand of Protestantism does not always even believe in hell, and so it is no wonder that they are largely out of the debate. The growing acceptance of Catholics by ministers like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson is a good sign of the brotherhood that should be ours as believers. However, there are still ministers like Jimmy Swaggert who teach that Roman Catholicism is the Whore of Babylon.

Jehovah Witnesses do not think much of Catholics, but except for a 144,000, they would say most Protestants and all Catholics are damned anyway. They are not true Christians because they deny the divinity of Jesus. While there is some contention over the Christianity of the Latter Day Saints, most Catholic authorities would also consider them still a cult and not truly Christian. Their theology, which grows more mainstream with every new edition of the PEARL OF GREAT PRICE, THE BOOK OF MORMON, and the revelations of their elder presidents is very problematical: souls pre-exist and are not uniquely created; a good Mormon can become his own Christ over another planet (violating the notion of Jesus as our sole Savior); the Trinity is broken into three distinct gods (polytheism) which utterly contradicts Christian and Jewish monotheism.

We still pray for non-Christians that God will not hold them in judgment for truths about which they stand in ignorance.

Hope this helps to explain things, from a Catholic perspective.

Peace,
Fr. Joe

BOOK REVIEW: Love is Always

LOVE IS ALWAYS by Michael Miles is a book about a Catholic priest who marries a woman and then seeks to continue his ministry as a priest. While progressives might look upon the story as a challenge to Rome, it is actually an occasion for shame for those involved. Fr. Miles sidesteps as unloving and intolerant those who would criticize his actions. However, what he does is worthy of real rebuke and the publication of his scandal is evidence of his lack of repentance.

He violates his promise of celibacy, made to the bishop, but also by extension to the Church and almighty God.

He made both a priest friend and his bishop into accomplices in his ecclesiastical crime and seriously sinful matter.

While Archbishop Hunthausen was guilty by his toleration of a potential act of schism from the Holy See; his replacement, Bishop Curtiss, erred by his passivity in allowing the disobedient priest to remain in the parish and pretend, poorly it should be added, not to be a priest. It was a sham, pure and simple.

Since he was barred from marriage by his vocation, his bond with Joan was counterfeit, subjecting them both to a situation of sinful cohabitation and fornication. He risked damning, not just himself, but the person he claimed to love.

He sought to hide his transgression from the eyes of Rome, implying of course that the universal Church had no say over him or the enforcement of discipline.

He ingratiated himself and his family upon a parish and the pastoral council, leading to hostility between parishioners and Church authorities; threatening the Catholicity and the souls of the laity.

He reveals himself to be the friend of dissenters. It should be no surprise that he questions Church authority to impose discipline on other matters. He fails to respect celibacy as a special love all its own, but further, repudiates the teachings against artificial contraception. I would not be surprised if he rejected the view that homosexual attraction as a sexual disorientation, too.

One good thing about the book is that it allows Fr. Miles to burn his bridges behind him. Even if the Church should relax the discipline regarding priestly celibacy, such renegades and heretics will never be allowed to function as priests again.

A false compassion and romanticism allowed something to happen that never should have started. Many priests who leave for a woman often get divorced; a sign that one broken promise often leads to others. LOVE IS ALWAYS, not simply until something that looks better comes along.

Sin and evil does not always wear a scary mask. Fornication and rebellion against the Church might be disguised as tenderness and freedom; but, it remains a whirlpool that threatens to draw us into the darkness. Feelings are important, but should never take precedence over human integrity, the value of obedience, and the imposition of the Gospel as proclaimed by the teaching authority of the Church.

Response to Clare About WOMEN'S ORDINATION

CLARE:

Dear Father, I have a lot of respect for God's Catholic Church, I see you as my devoted, loving brothers and sisters. However I cried a lot when I read your argument against the ordination of women to the priesthood.

FATHER JOE:

Dear Clare,

The posts on women's ordination were composed some years ago, and so you will have to forgive me the fact that the arguments are not fresh in my mind. Originally they were written responses to a series of letters (in my pre-email days) to an advocate of women's ordination. I am sorry if they made you cry. Nevertheless, the Holy Father himself has reiterated the impossibility of such a move. Lawful authority and obedience are essential ingredients to the faith of every Catholic; dissent leads to alienation from the Church and the loss of the sacraments. Ultimately, it is the usurpation of the truth by human whim and pride.

CLARE:

I felt that your arguments were good and well expressed and you show that you know far more than many of us could hope to know.

FATHER JOE:

It is true that I possess a lot of book learning, but do not short-change yourself in exploring the serious questions of life and faith. In any case, what is more important is holiness of life. The devil himself has a brilliant intellect, but without divine grace, he really has nothing that matters. What is important is how we respond to what we know. I am convinced that God created us; sent his Son to redeem us; and has bestowed the Holy Spirit to safeguard the teaching Church with his truths and to empower the divine mysteries or sacraments. The posture of a disciple is always humility to the will of God as expressed by the shepherds given us by Christ. These shepherds, in turn, while not always the best of men, in union with the See of Peter, teach the faith without corruption and govern the family of God.

The matter at hand is a serious one. Disagreement, while academic or theoretical, is one thing-- outright dissent means a dismissal of the very ecclesial structure instituted by Christ. Priests, albeit men, pledge absolute obedience to this Church and to their direct superior or bishop. The bishop expresses the will of God in a priest's life. He goes where he is sent and he does the ministry that is given him. One could argue that it is the attitude of serious dissent, apart from the issue at hand, that invalidates the calling of one to any significant ministry in the Church.

Admittedly, in practice, churchmen sometimes soft-pedal certain teachings, or avoid them all together, to keep certain souls in the Church. I recall a young woman who used to run a youth group for me. She was good at the work and I did not want to lose her. I never went into great depth upon the topic of women's ordination, as I knew her sentiments. The priest who followed me (when I was reassigned) got into a heated argument with her and she left the Church. Last I heard, she attends an Episcopal faith community. Her anger is such that she will not talk to any Catholic priest, even one who counted himself her friend.

CLARE:

I felt that something was missing, though, and that is God's calling. I cannot and will not ignore God's calling despite however many references and arguments there are against it.

I appreciate that I have little experience in theology, but I don't believe it comes down to that entirely. I know God is calling me by my name and telling me to help and serve His people through work in the clergy.

FATHER JOE:

God may indeed be calling you to special service, but not within the ranks of holy orders. The former only you can know, the latter is the voice of the Church, herself. You might look outside Catholicism for ordination to priesthood; however, you would only be embracing a caricature of the truth without substance. There are many counterfeit churches today and impotent ministers without the priestly authority to forgive sins and to confect the Eucharist.

You need to listen to your head and your heart. If you are a Catholic, then you need to understand the sacraments as the Church, herself, defines them. Do not let emotion get the best of you. What we feel can be very deceptive. Couples often become too intimate before marriage because on some level they feel it is right despite what the Church and the bible teaches. It still constitutes sin and is destructive to one another. Similarly, just as true marriage is undermined by such liaisons, so is a calling to priesthood by a sentiment that lacks validation from the true Church. I sensed a calling to priesthood as a young boy. However, I could not attest that it was authentic until the bishop called me by name. Many men with whom I studied, and despite their initial yearnings, discerned or were informed, that God was calling them to something else.

CLARE:

I am not going to push Him out. After your years in the Church, my approach probably sounds a little childish.

FATHER JOE:

Yes, your approach does sound childish. Catholicism by its very definition is a corporate religion. The Protestant view is an individualistic approach to religion, placing one's individual relationship and personal inspiration above the tenets of any teaching Church. Put bluntly, to accomplish your goal you would have to make yourself Pope before you could fashion yourself as a priest-- nay, even worse, you would have to take on the mantle of God, since even the true Pope says he has not the power to allow such a change.

CLARE:

But I am one of God's daughters, called to serve, called to the priesthood. I know you will never change your mind on the matter, but please just think about the calling that made you give up everything you loved and accept your role.

FATHER JOE:

I have thought about it. If the Church had said that I was not worthy, I would have accepted it as the will of God. This is the Catholic way. I did not deserve to be a priest. No one does. It is a gracious gift from God and from the Church. Most men will never be priests. No women will ever be priests. Nevertheless, the greatest human being, next to our Incarnate Lord, was the Virgin Mary. Priesthood is no guarantee of greater holiness. Seek holiness and practice humility. This is your great calling. The latter is sorely being tempted.

CLARE:

I, and thousands of women like me (and, indeed, men) live in that calling every day. There is not a minute of a day that it is not on my mind and in my heart. Call me a heretic. Call me a satanist. Call me a witch. I'm one of God's children. And a priestess-to-be.

My love and prayers to you all,
Clare.

FATHER JOE:

Did I call you a heretic or a Satanist? You have said nothing about the practice of Wicca, so why would I label you a witch? As for a priestess-to-be, I cannot fathom how you will make it a reality. A label will not make it for real. Who will ordain you? What creed and Church will you confess?

You have read my arguments, there is no need to rehash them. Think over carefully what you plan to do. I will be praying for you.

Fr. Joe

CLARE:

"I tell you that He who does not accept the Kingdom of God like a little child, shall not enter it."

FATHER JOE:

Yes, be like a child obedient to her parents, not childish. Your namesake did many great things for the Church, and yet, neither Clare nor Francis were ever priests. Could God be calling you to the Poor Clares? Think about it, and pray for a submission of will.

Dear Clare,

As addenda to the last email, I may have presumed incorrectly that our discussion was within the Catholic camp. If you are Anglican, then the specifications of your ecclesiastical communion might allow you entrance into its clergy. However, note that Catholics differ with the definition of "priesthood" and the substance of its transmission. In other words, except for the Anglo-Catholics, we would be talking at cross-purposes, about two distinct and different things.

Catholics view the priest as an "alter christus" or another Christ who makes present the sacrifice of Calvary in a real though unbloody way. Anglicans would permit the notion of sacrifice, but as a prayer of praise, not as an actual prayer of propitiation or satisfaction. Catholics believe that priests have the personal power to apply Christ's saving act of a forgiveness of sins in an immediate way. Episcopal theology, as usually professed, stipulates that the priest merely gives an avenue by which the forgiveness of Christ already accomplished in a general manner is acknowledged or externalized by ritual. Catholics believe that for a genuine ordination, the subject must be valid (a man of faith), the bishop must lay hands upon the man, and the bishop's intention must be in conformity with the Church in consecrating a priest to re-present the oblation of Christ. Because of a historical breach with Cranmer's initial Book of Common Prayer, the Anglican Communion forfeited apostolic succession. Thus, except for a possible few ordained by Old Catholics and Orthodox Bishops, even the male clergy of the Anglican Church (called Episcopal in the U.S.) are not valid priests.

I recall a preaching seminar I attended in 1986. The somewhat liberal coordinator invited a female Presbyterian minister and an Episcopal priest to celebrate Mass with the Catholics. Out of a group of thirty, I was the lone holdout. The word came the next day from the bishop that they had to cease or face censure. The other priests told me that they knew it was wrong, but were afraid to speak out. The female Episcopalian priest wept in my arms. I tried to console her, but not at the expense of what I knew to be true. We prayed together, as all Christians should. But, the concelebrating of the Mass-- the ultimate sign of unity-- was out of the question. The Episcopal Church has an open table with little regard about variant beliefs in the real presence. The Catholic Church retains the ancient practice of the closed table so that we might hunger for true unity.

Hope this helps in your reflection.

Peace,
Fr. Joe