Come Home to the Church Debate, part 1

I am fairly certain that I made some attempt to contact Mrs. Hooper years ago. I had hoped that she would one day respond and my patience has been rewarded. Here is something of the debate. Please note that Mrs. Hooper's comments are in RED.

Dear Readers, I came across this by accident on the net one evening and found it necessary to respond. I want to show you, the reader, the "role of Catholicism" and how it likes to hang "eternal threats" of its members and those who left the ungodly system. It's a system that teaches a "works" for salvation.

This is a plea from a "Catholic Priest" for me to come back home to the Catholic Church. Supposedly, it was written out of much "concern" for me, but yet it didn't dawn on him to contact me that he wrote this letter, the person whom he "cares" about. Isn't that rather strange? If there is such concern for a person you think is walking a path leading to destruction, would you not write or talk with the person whom you care about rather than throw a plea up on the net without that person's knowledge? (A plea that is found 6 years later!)

Coming out of the Roman Catholic system, it is typical to hear the same rhetoric over and over again. If you are an ex-Catholic, you know what I mean. While in the Roman Catholic system it is clear you understood your faith; you were well educated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and participated faithfully to the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church, but once you leave the system you are told you were "ignorant" of the faith you grew up to learn.

If you are a Catholic, I pray that you will seriously study the Bible for yourself and let the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.

Dear Mrs. Hooper, while it has indeed been a number of years, I am sure that I tried to send an email message to you. It is not clear that your testimonial was on your website (did you have one then?) or whether I it was posted for you. I do recall seeing it posted in several places over the years. The post I made refers to a site under Independent Baptist Churches. In any case, there was no response and so I made it an open letter-- just as your story was also published for all to read. I cannot say whether it was you or someone else who snubbed my communication, but it is somewhat disingenious to feign hurt given that your response is also public and only secondarily addressed to me.

The fact that basic Catholic teachings and practices were distorted in your testimonial was evident. My evaluation that you were "ignorant" of your faith was a charitable judgment, because if you did it deliberately you would have been guilty of deception. It may be that people gave praise where it was not due in applauding your knowledge of Catholicism.

Testimonies of former Catholics are always tragic and often tainted by doctrinal distortion. Such is the case with Sandy Hooper's tale posted on the Internet under Independent Baptist Churches. Please pray for those who are lured away from the true Church, particularly when they have been failed by those charged with their faith formation.

Here this priest begins by calling my testimony a "tale." He says my testimony is "tainted by doctrinal distortion." What is interesting is that he did not post my testimony along with his letter. How come, Mr. Jenkins? Were you afraid to let the readers see how the Lord Jesus Christ can change lives? Even in a court of law both sides are given a fair chance to present their case. However, coming from a Roman Catholic background, this is very typical. The Roman Catholic system will do its best to keep the pure gospel out of the hands of the common lay people. It has been that way in the past and continues to this day.

I did not post your complete testimonial because I did not hear from you and get your permission to do so. I was pretty new to the Internet then and did not know how to do a lot of technical things with webpages. If I repost the response in the future, I will see if I can find a hyperlink to your original article. Again, I did make reference to the Independent Baptist Churches, an organization which must have run the site where your story was made available. Of course, to do what you want would also make the matter a running debate. Now that I have responded to your response, will you publish this along with your rebuttal? Would you not either ignore this response or make sure to add even more material-- giving yourself the last word? This is human nature, is it not?

Dear Mrs. Hooper, if it were not for the tragedy that befell you and your abandonment of the Catholic faith, your recollections of your first communion and confirmation would have been quite poignant. Please find it in your heart not to condemn the Church or the priesthood for the failings of the perverse clergyman who took advantage of you.

This is also a typical response, especially to ex-catholics who have been sexually abused by the Roman Catholic priests. He assumes my leaving the Roman Catholic church had to do with a priest who sexually abused me. He is wrong.

Mrs. Hooper, if the abuse had nothing to do with your defection from Catholicism then why was it in your testimony? No, you cannot have it both ways. It is part of the story of your disenchantment with the Church.

You had every right to be shocked and angry. He will have much for which to account when he meets the Lord. I can understand the nature of the obedience you were taught to render to the priests; however, I am at a loss to fully comprehend how a young person preparing for confirmation would have acquiesced to what was clearly wrong. Even your parents cannot demand obedience, if such is toward evil acts. The fourth commandment requires that we honor our parents, and even our spiritual fathers, but it is conditional upon them being honorable.

You are correct, you are at a loss to fully comprehend.

It's amazing the audacity this fellow has in trying to paint the picture of it being the "victim's fault" because he thinks they 'comply passively or without protest'. No, he does not understand the mind of young children at such tender ages. He talks as though I should have had the mind of an adult at the time the priest took his liberties with me. Is this what you tell the thousands of people who were abused at the hands of priests at such tender ages? Is this how you cover up for your fellow priests?

I have never covered up for anyone. It sounds like there is still a lot of unresolved anger. I presume that you have reported him to the authorities? Back in the 1990’s when I wrote the response, the scandal of priestly abuse was just beginning to pick up steam. I must be honest that I was pretty naïve about it and never imagined that the few individuals in the news at that time represented a far larger problem. I lament as a Christian man and as a pastor of souls the callous treatment and hurt inflicted upon so many young lives. I concede that young people seemed to be a great deal more docile to the commands of priests than was my experience as a child. I suspect that is different now.

In any case, you were an innocent school girl and the fault was his.

Sure, after painting the picture how I was acquiesced to what I should haven known was clearly wrong.

There is no place in the priesthood for a man who would hurt any of our little ones. I said as much in my earlier response: “… you were an innocent school girl and the fault was his.”

It must have been a month-and-a-half of torture.

Wrong. Try 10 years. How about trying to live with this guilt and shame of what you think was your fault, and it eating at you secretly for years? Try and figure the warped image it gives a child with this being his/her first sexual encounter in life, sex that was created by God and said to be good. Try and figure what it's like to be scared and never told how to handle those situations. Try and figure the moments of depression because a young child was stripped of his/her innocence. Try and figure the warped image it gave of spiritual authority.

While I thought aloud that it must have been “a month-and-a-half of torture” it was merely in response to the narrative. I am not clairvoyent to know what was going on beyond your testimony. Nevertheless, I have no argument with you here. Not all priests are guilty of the sins of a few and your consternation would be better targeted against the man who hurt you. I sympathize with your plight and I am thankful that you have found some healing in the Lord. But, there is no magic wand. What happened cannot be undone. You have every right to tell your story, but given the thrust or purpose of your witness, the impression is given that the problem with sexuality is systemic and that all priests are wolves in the guise of shepherds. Thus, some response had to be made.

Despite all this, you continued your catechetical studies and at 16 desired to enter the convent.

Because despite what man did to me, I still wanted to serve God.

I will take at face value that you legitimately wanted to serve God. But even non-Catholics might read your witness and after the episode of abuse wonder why you would still want to serve God in the Catholic Church?

It is here that the story becomes troubling. You dropped out of high school and thus had trouble finding an order that would accept you, that is until you contacted the Sisters of St. Martha. Despite the fact that you had abandoned your studies, you seemed to resent the fact that yours was a domestic order charged with the household chores for priests and brothers.

You set up the reader to instill in his mind this poor high school drop out who joined an order just to resent what she was doing.

First of all, every particular detail of my life is not given in my testimony. I had just completed my 11th grade education at the time of trying to find an order where I felt I could serve God. When I left the convent, I did further my education.

No one is set up. There is just a problem with consistency, i.e. that you were (supposedly) well versed in faith and yet a 16 year old drop-out. It does not jive. You may have continued your education after leaving the convent, but I suspect that any religious education was inherently unsympathetic to Catholicism.

While I know you would render protestation otherwise,

Of course, because you open your mouth before you get all the facts.

What other facts are there? Your story was supposed to be compelling. But the facts speak for themselves.

It seems to me that you lacked the humility which categorizes such women and which aids their growth in holiness, by doing the ordinary tasks of life.

You are talking about a person who knows full well the ordinary tasks of life.

Again, I refer to the testimony and the type of work that the Sisters of St. Martha do.

Their life was hard, but supposedly you had chosen it. No one forced you into the convent. You say yourself that the silent time was to aid the sisters in concentrating on God. As for the quality time, the recreation was for more than playing pool, it was to help you develop "communion" with the other sisters. Were they not your friends?

I simply informed the readers my schedule as it was in the convent.

As for friends, some of those sisters were my friends. Why would I have been so upset at losing one? Judy and I kept in contact for a few years after she was out of the convent. I even went to visit the sisters in New Hampshire on occasions after I left.

Also, it is not uncommon for a person to seriously question or have second thoughts about something he/she is considering to do for the rest of his/her life. After all, a canidate for that vocation is given at least 5 years to think about such issues before making 'final vows'.

You would have done better to have imitated The Little Flower. St. Therese even had her blood sisters in the convent with her and yet she spent her time in companionship with the sisters who were the most disagreeable. No work was too menial for her.

You are quite right that during the novitiate, before final vows, there is a period of discernment. But, did you make the most of it? You are critical of the community. I am glad that you stayed on good terms with some of them after leaving. I wonder what kind of relationship you have with them now, particularly given what you said about them and their regimen? If they are the kind of good sisters I suspect, the religious congregation probably still prays for you.

Your testimony about not reading and studying the bible seems to place yourself more at fault than the institution.

No, rather the institution. For that matter, I was not even given a Bible when I entered the convent. Suffice to say, I had my own. And as far as the time schedule, there was never a time given to sit and study the Bible together.
And for that matter, the Roman Catholic system operates in the same way the Jehovah's Witnesses do. It takes the doctrinal teachings of its organization and uses the Bible to support their doctrine by misapplying and taking verses out of context.

This is where I take serious exception with you. You admitted yourself there was free time. You could have organized a bible-sharing group. In any case, you now admit you had a bible available to you. I suspect that you also prayed the Breviary which is a wonderful collection of readings and the psalms. By the way, the psalms, a hallmark of Catholic prayer, were probably the core prayers for the Jews of old. Our Lord often cites them, even from the cross. During the cycle of Mass readings a significant proportion of the bible is covered too-- with significant preaching.

Jehovah Witnesses do not even believe Jesus is God. They can hardly be compared to Catholics. The Catholic way of bible interpretation is called "contexual" and is always based opon the type of literature, surrounding texts, intention of the passage, and what was meant in the original language and culture. Sorry, I suspect you are the guys who quote isolated chapters and verses in the misapplication of the Scriptures.

Your breviary prayers, the Mass, and your bible were to be prime sources of Scriptural richness, and you failed to fully utilize them. As is typical of dependent personalities, if no one told you to do something, you did not do it. As a possible kindness, knowing that you had quit school and that others were probably in the same situation, I have to wonder if the matter of bible study was not pressed because of concerns regarding literacy and intellectual competency?

Again, you continue to paint your imaginary picture to your readers so you can make the person appear illiterate and lacking in intellectual competency before you start shooting your blows.

There is an important theological principle: whatever is received is received according to the mode of the recipient. Your testimony caused me to ask legitimate questions about your competence and abilities.

You make a big deal in complaining about all the prayer as if that somehow absolved you from picking up your bible more often. Sorry, it does not wash.

The fact is, I was spiritually dead. I was dead in trespasses and sins, and even if we did read the Bible everyday, it still would have been empty (unless one is born again)

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Cor. 2:14

See, here is an instance of using a text out of context, something you accuse Catholics of doing. Admittedly, I will sometimes use proof texts against Protestants since that is the style they follow. However, it represents something of a departure from the hermeneutics practiced by professional Catholic exegetes.

You were baptized and had received the sacraments. You had a bible. Even the simplest Catholic is aware that our relationship with Jesus and his mystical body, the Church, is essential. If you were dead in sin, all you had to do was repent and reaffirm your faith in Jesus Christ-- a faith that is realized in our thoughts, words and deeds. We believe in Jesus. We profess him as Lord and Savior in all the sacraments and in obedient Christian discipleship.

If you were spiritually dead then you were right, nothing you did and none of the spiritual exercises would have been of any benefit to you. A person in mortal sin has closed the door to divine grace.

Of course, your view of being "born again" is radically different from Catholicism. It is a Protestant reflection imposed upon your convent experience from hindsight. Misapplied and misunderstood, it becomes a hapless attempt to negate sacraments and Catholic devotions. The fact that you admitted to being in a dark spiritual state was evidence in itself that you did not know your faith and its application as you should have.

Now, quickly let us look at your citation from Paul's letter to the Corinthians. Just as St. Paul taught and preached the truth, this is also the mandate of the Church's shepherds today. The wisdom of God is the folly of men. Unless we have been given the gift of faith by the Holy Spirit, we cannot say in honesty, "I believe." The posture of the believer toward the Scriptures and teaching Church is always humility. The world, the flesh and the devil would substitute another message. Jesus is the revelation of the Father and the Church has been entrusted with a deposit of faith. He sends his Holy Spirit upon the infant Church to lead us in all saving truth. This Holy Spirit is also invoked by individual believers. In faith and baptism we became temples of the Spirit. Confirmation gave us a more full share. Before spiritual reading and bible study we invoke the Holy Spirit and beseech him for wisdom. Faith brings us from death to life. The worldly man cannot understand the things of the Spirit. We see that today in many moral issues, just as St. Paul was concerned about immorality among the Corinthians. We also see it in your rejection of the real presence in the Eucharist.

We read in the universal Catholic Catechism:

[CCC 2038] In the work of teaching and applying Christian morality, the Church needs the dedication of pastors, the knowledge of theologians, and the contribution of all Christians and men of good will. Faith and the practice of the Gospel provide each person with an experience of life "in Christ," who enlightens him and makes him able to evaluate the divine and human realities according to the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:10-15).

Thus the Holy Spirit can use the humblest to enlighten the learned and those in the highest positions.

St. Paul says that one man is sensitive to the Spirit (pneumatikos) and another is the man of the flesh (psuchikos). While one is open to the things of God, the other lives as if there is nothing beyond this world and physical existence. The Church cannot be accused of pampering the latter man since she sees herself as a pilgrim in this world and our goal is focused upon eternal things and the life to come. The worldly man seeks to satsify the longings of the flesh. The Church urges us to cast aside the things of the world so that we can live for Christ alone.

The key to understanding the citation are the lines you omit:

"The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 'For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:15-16).

St. Paul them addresses them, not as spiritual men but as babes in Christ. Christians, and that includes the first called by Jesus, the Catholic community, are urged to put on the new man, to have the mind of Christ in all things.

You became angry when another sister was required to leave. This intensified when you rejected the slogan, "Many are called, but few are chosen." However, it has to do with a religious vocation and not our common baptismal mission. The former sister could still serve God. You missed the point. However, I suspect that your decision to leave the convent was the right choice, given that the gravity of this commitment and your faith "didn't make sense" to you.

Whether a 'religious vocation' or not, simply put, she wanted to serve God in that manner and was rejected because of a 'physical flaw'.

And as far as my faith not making sense to me, it's because it was the "Catholic faith," not the Biblical faith.

The retort about religious vocation is incoherent. The Church has the responsibility to validate a calling to religious life or holy orders. Your friend could have lived her Christian vocation in any manner she wanted outside this context. The evangelical counsels are not easily followed and if she was unable to do so then it would have been foolhardy to have allowed her to make a mess of her life and maybe distrupt the community. There are other religious houses and rules of life vary. She could have looked elsewhere.

As for the slur against the Catholic faith, I would submit that the Church is not only true but given to us by Jesus. The early canons of the bible were preserved and collected by the Catholic Church. The bible is THE Catholic book. And we are ever so pleased to share it with others-- even when they misunderstand it. Today, among people of good will, the bible is becoming a source of unity between many Protestants (yes, even Baptists) and Catholics.

You remained, however, "in Romanish chains" as you put it, saying your rosary and going to Church. I have to wonder if you ever internalized the external devotions and your participation at Mass? I doubt it. You remained empty. You wanted a quick fix religion. You wanted a faith with fireworks, a show with Mary appearing to you and supernatural interventions. Even your penance was all done to be seen, crawling up the stairs of the shrine on your knees while failing to raise your heart up to the Lord. Penance is the joining of our crosses to the cross of Jesus; stripping away various gifts that we might better set our eyes upon the divine giver.

That is not the whole reason for penance and you know it. According to the Roman Catholic church,

It was not my intent to give a full exposition upon the subject of penance. What you neglect to say is, perhaps because you do not know, is that after absolution there is true forgiveness of sins so that even if full satisfaction for sin cannot be offered, such a person would not be lost from God.

"Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must 'make satisfaction for' or 'expiate' his sins. This satisfaction is also called 'penance.'" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Pg. 407, #1459)

You fail to even give a complete citation from the catechism. Here is the rest of CCC 1459: "Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor." You cite the teaching but omitted the justification. That is not playing honest with readers.

The Catechism further states where it concerns penance, "....can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear." ( Pg 407, #1460)

Here too you strip CCC 1460 of important introductory text: "The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent's personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, 'provided we suffer with him" (Romans 6:17; Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:1-2).

Where it concerns the Eucharist and Penance, the Catechism states,

"It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins. Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father---every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins.

"The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church's penitential practices. These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, PILGRIMAGES as signs of penance, voluntary SELF-DENIAL such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary work)." (Pg. 400, 401, #1436, #1437, #1438...emphasis in caps mine.)

Let us read these citations then:

CCC 1436 - "EUCHARIST AND PENANCE. Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist, for in it is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God. Through the Eucharist those who live from the life of Christ are fed and strengthened. 'It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins.'"

We are creatures who live in time and space. We need constantly to allow ourselves to be formed by the divine mysteries and the Gospel proclamation. Christ has redeemed us but we still need to GROW in holiness.

You quote CCC 1437 in full about bible reading, the Breviary and the Lord's Prayer. It states, "... every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repenetance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins." Can anyone deny that these practices-- Scripture reading, praying with the Church, and echoing the Lord's prayer is of benefit to us? It makes us cognizant everyday of who we are and what we are to be about. My experience as a priest and that of millions of other believers is a validation of the truth here.

You quote CCC 1438 in full (about seasons and days of penance) but still need to reflect upon it. Catholic Christians like the Jews have a liturgical calendar. We recall our salvation history throughout the year in feasts and solemn memorials. There are also seasons, some of which to varying degrees, are still followed by the Protestant community. The seasons are Lent, Easter, Advent, Christmas and what is poorly called Ordinary Time. Penitential seasons precede the great feasts and are opportunities for spiritual preparation and meditation upon the saving works of God in Jesus Christ. You highlight PILGRIMAGES like there is something wrong with them. However, they can be wonderful opportunities for spiritual growth. While the man of flesh only take VACATIONS, the man of the Spirit knows that he is always a pilgrim in this world. One day we will reach that promised shore to which we travel where we will find Christ and all the saints who have gone before us. As a chaplain I have lead pilgrimages to Mexico, where the Christian faith brought an end to pagan worship and the blood sacrifice of babies. Because of the Catholic Church, the horrible crime of abortion is still illegal there. I have gone to the Holy Land twice. We walked where Jesus and his apostles walked. We read the bible stories and prayed where they actually happened-- where Jesus was born, where he preached the Beatitudes, where he stayed with Peter the fisherman in Galilee, where he died on the cross, and yes, where he rose from the dead.

It was our custom when we fasted to take the money saved from food and to give it to the poor. I and many other Catholics join our penitential practices to our charity work. We work at shelters for the homeless-- we give out food and share companionship with the hungry at soap kitchens-- we help pregnant women to find a place to stay and assist them in having and keeping their babies.

Penance is a reminder that God is not finished with us yet. All sin cries out for temporal punishment, and yet he is merciful. Salvation comes from Jesus Christ. Salvation remains a free gift to believers that we cannot earn. Penance apart from contrition and absolution cannot save anyone. We must be disposed to the good graces of God. I deny myself many things that I may live more for Christ.

These are nothing but man-made rules placed on people who are on their way to hell because they trust the teachings of the Roman Catholic system.

This is a cheap shot, plain and simple. It does an grave injustice to true believers.

Many Catholics perform penance because they have been taught that good works are required by God to make amends for their sins so they can be restored to full spiritual health.

We are always to grow spiritually. The Christian life is not a stagnant affair. It seems your concern here is not penance but good works. To borrow a chapter from your book, here are interesting bible texts, all from the Epistle of James:

"Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him" (James 1:12).

"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves" (James 1:22).

"But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing" (James 1:25).

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world" (James 1:26).

"If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself,' you do well" (James 2:8).

"For who ever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it" (James 2:10).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (James 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (James 2:17).

"But some one will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe - and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and was reckoned to him as righteousness'; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead" (James 2:18-26).

Have you read your Bible lately? God's word tells us that Christ paid the full price for our sins at Calvary. God's word states,

"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where re-mission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." Hebrews 10:17-18

You are jumping from subject to subject, but I will try to keep up. Here is a case in point where I think you do not understand the Catholic view of justification and redemption. Catholic bibles have all the quotations you make and yet good and honest scholars and churchmen see no conflict with Catholic teaching.

You create a strawman Catholicism that does not exist and then you seek to tear it down, like the candidates in a tough political campaign. However, it is not the most honest way to discuss matters. For instance, how does the Catholic Church understand Hebrews 10:17-18? After remarking about the many oblations of the Jewish priesthood, Paul states: "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, then to wait until his enemies should be made a stool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,' then he adds, 'I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more.' Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin" (Hebrews 10:12-18).

A few verses later he writes, "For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised" (Hebrews 10:36).

Yet, the Roman Catholic church makes offerings everyday of the year. God declares in His word for true Christians that once his sins are forgiven through faith in Jesus Christ, there is NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN. One does not have to do "works" of penance, for Christ paid the price on the cross. He even chooses to remember them no more! No one can do any types of works to cause his sins to be forgiven! It's not what we do, but what HE did!

Does the Catholic Church teach that there is one high priest and his name is Jesus Christ? YES!

Does the Catholic Church teach that Jesus died once and for all for sin? YES!

Does the Catholic Church teach that Jesus paid the full price for our sins on Calvary? YES!

None of this negates Catholic practices like the Mass, Confession and penitential works. The real work is done. We have been redeemed from the devil at the cost of Christ's blood. The gates of heaven are openned. The apostolic ministry and the divine mysteries established by Jesus are the ways that Catholics access the saving work and merit of their Lord. Everything in the Catholic Church comes back to Jesus. We have priests, but they participate in the one priesthood of Christ. On another level, that of faith and baptism, we all participate in Christ's self-offering as a priestly people-- a royal nation-- a people set apart. The sacraments allow us full entry into the Paschal Mystery of Jesus who is the umblemished Lamb of God. Even if a Catholic cannot get to sacramental confession, like any Christian, he can cry out, Lord I am a sinner, have mercy on me! God hears that prayer. A penitential life opens us to better receive and appreciate the mercy and healing of God.

There is no other way to the Father than through his Son, Jesus Christ.

Any person who believes his Bible will see that one does not have to do penance should he fall in the temptation of sin. Why? Because God is always ready to forgive, for the Bible tells us,

"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee." Psalm 86:5

"Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed" (James 4:16).

Yes, God is always ready to forgive us. The penance does not buy our salvation. We are not bargaining with God. Penance can also be done in thanksgiving for God's mercy. A distinction needs to be made between a person in God's good graces and the level of holiness we might possess. Penance reminds us about how terrible sin is. Penance conditions the flesh and helps us to be more faithful in the future. Penance acknowledges the justice of God while divine absolution manifests his boundless mercy. This leads directly into your next subject, offerings and prayer for the dead.

Not only does the Roman Catholic church insist on penance for those who are alive, but also insists that the living do works of penance on behalf of the dead! "The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:" (Pg. 291, #1032)

Penance in this context is seen as an element of prayer. No one can buy anyone's ticket for eternal life. Prayer, penance, not even the Mass can move the damned from hell to heaven. The Catechism, if cited honestly, speaks for itself and explains this wonderful sign of solidarity with each other and the vast forgiveness of God:

CCC 1030 - "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

CCC 1031 - "The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire (cf. 1 Corinthians 3:15; 1 Peter 1:7): 'As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.'"

CCC 1032 - "This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: 'Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin" (2 Macc 12:46). From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance on behalf of the dead: 'Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them (St. John Chrysostom, Homily on 1 Corinthians 41; cf. Job 1:5)."

Everything I have quoted so far from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is in direct violation of the clear teachings of the Holy Scriptures, and you want to question my literacy and intellectual competency? Shame on you!

Your response seems much more thoughtful than your testimonial several years ago. However, the fact that you bought and can copy sections from the universal catechism does not mean you really understand everything you are reading. The universal catechism respects both Scripture and the living tradition. Nothing has been shown otherwise.

A Roman Catholic lacks eternal security and IS MADE TO FEEL UNWORTHY because he has been pounded since birth that his eternal salvation is always in jeopardy (thus the sacraments). He is ingrained from birth the doctrinal errors taught by the Roman Catholic church which teaches a "faith plus works" gospel.

Did you read this in the universal catechism? No, I do not think so. Catholics who have faith in Christ live in the sure and certain hope of their salvation. However, anyone who rejects Christ would have every cause to worry about their salvation. It is true that Catholics understand that faith can sour. It would be a mistake to take "blessed assurance" to mean "once a Christian, always a Christian". This would either mean that our moral acts do not matter or that initial faith is a pretense in scandalous sinners. It makes more sense to say that we have an obligation to stay the course, and to faithfully run the course as St. Paul would remind us. There is a crown to win.

As quoted before, "For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised" (Hebrews 10:36).

As Jesus said to the Pharisees in His day,

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. -Mt. 23:13

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. -Mt. 23:14

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. -Mt. 23:15

But who are the Pharisees? Catholic ministers may not in every case be what they should be, but as a whole, many saints have emerged. The Church has never forgotten her mission to go out to all the world and to make new disciples, baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Many have come to know the Lord and his gift of salvation in his one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. The Church prays unceasingly in her Liturgy of the Hours and in the Eucharist. Such is the posture of the creature to the Creator, worshipping and praising God. The Church does not "devour widows' houses" but quite the opposite. Catholic Charities is the second largest charity organization in the world, just behind the U.S. government. We sponsor Victory Housing for the poor and the elderly. We run shelters. We have always remembered that you cannot tell people that God loves them without feeding their hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty, sheltering the homeless-- letting them know that they possess immeasurable value and dignity. The Church is not condemned with the Pharisees but shares the blessings of the Beatitudes.

Your lack of humility emerges from your testimony, "I must prove I am worthy." How can you prove that which is a lie. Catholicism teaches that we can be made holy by God's grace, but ultimately we are all sinners in need of a redeemer. Every Catholic is to set his sights on heaven, knowing that he can only reach that promised shore through divine assistance and intervention.

Right, according to the Roman Catholic church. As you say, "through divine assistance and intervention," which means abiding in the man made rules of the Roman Catholic church by almsgiving, indulgences, works of penance undertaken on behalf of the living and the dead, along with Mary's intervention and help, and a host of other unscriptural practices.

A Catholic does not have his sights on heaven, but his sights are making sure he better have a priest there to give him his last rights when death comes knocking at his door so he can make it to purgatory; however, it is still not determined by the Roman Catholic church how many prayers of dead saints, the prayers of Mary, rosaries, Masses, indulgences, and works of penance it will take to get a loved one out of purgatory so he may join Jesus Christ! Do you know how many? If Karol Wojtyla (aka pope John Paul II) can't, then I guess you can't either.

The Church is both a human and divine institution. Saul on the road was struck blind and heard a voice crying, "Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute me?" He did not understand that in abusing Christians, he was attacking Christ, himself. So too do you, unknowingly as well, persecute our Lord in attacking his mystical body, the Catholic Church. The Church is composed of sinners. But, the Church is holy because Christ is holy.

The fact that you would mockingly ask how many prayers or acts of penance and devotion are required to satisfy divine justice (purgatory) is again evidence that you do not know what you are talking about. Catholics do indeed have their sights on heaven. They know that obedience is an element of faith and that we do not come to God alone. We are a community of faith. Your privatized religion allows nothing of this. That is your business, but you should not distort Catholic teaching. We live in time. Unlike the angels, our salvation is worked out in human history. We change our minds. We take two steps forward and one back. The Church allows people in every age and around the globe to encounter Jesus and his saving work. We pray for one another, even for the Church in purgation. If a soul has gone to heaven, then the fruit of our prayers and offerings of faith will be applied to another poor soul that needs them. Nothing is wasted. Nothing is lost. At the consummation of all things there will only be two realities-- heaven and hell. We believe in the Lamb that was Slain. As I said, our sights are on heaven.

What you experienced at La Salette was a healing service, not unlike those conducted in Pentecostal circles. The "sleeping in the Spirit" experience is said to come over a person as a great peacefulness. Paraliturgical in nature, there is nothing official about it in Catholic teaching. However, since the priest calls upon the healing power of Christ and invokes the Holy Spirit, I think we can trust that it comes from God.

You can call it "sleeping in the Spirit" or call it "slain in the Spirit." I don't care what kind of name you give it, it is not of God. In every single 'performance' of what is considered "slain in the Spirit," the person falls backwards.

Comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Cor. 2:13, John 6:63), there is not one instance in the Bible when someone had God working in their life that they fell backwards. Just the opposite happened, they fell flat on their faces (examples: Mt. 17:6, Dan. 8:16, 1 Cor. 14:24-25).

There is only one instance where people fell backwards onto the ground, and that is found in John 18:3-6.

"Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they WENT BACKWARD, AND FELL TO THE GROUND. "

Did you notice the only ones who fell backwards where the ENEMIES of Jesus?

Instead of leaning on your "own trust," why not see what the Bible has to say about the matter? A person will do well to have some type of "final authority" for all matters of faith and practice. I trust God's word, not man's opinions.

Actually, a wonderful priest I knew, now gone to his reward, used to offer regular healing Masses. After communion he would pray over people and some would fall backward (or slump down), others like myself, simply thanked him and went back to our seats. There was an x-ray set that showed a woman's hip before and after the healing service. It had totally disintegrated and she was told that she would need surgery. Afterwards, the new x-ray showed a perfectly formed hip and the pain was gone. Father Lubey was a simple man. No money was ever allowed to be collected. Cameras were not allowed in as well. His reputation spread and as an 80 year old man this made the work a real struggle. But, as I said, this is more a pentecostal experience than Catholic. Charismatics practice healing services too, but their numbers are very small in the Catholic Church. The expression, "slain-in-the-spirit", is not Catholic and does not reflect any of our doctrinal beliefs.

I will not get into a big debate about which way people are supposed to fall down. I opt to stand on my feet, thank you. This all seems rather silly. You must be an extreme fundamentalist to give any pertinence to such a business that is not even strictly Catholic. Go debate the Pentecostals, oops, I think they share your religious tenets and a mutual dislike for Catholicism.

Who are the enemies of Jesus? Let me give you a hint, they all hate the Catholic Church or dissent from within against her guidance and claims.

This is not to exclude that mentally or emotionally disturbed individuals might parrot a genuine spiritual experience as part of their malady.

I only refer to this latter point because you admit to attempting suicide twice. Later you gravitated toward a "charismatic" parish. The very thing which impressed you most, the elongated sign of peace with the priest leaving the altar, is a violation of liturgical discipline and good taste.

Maybe he needs to do some penance then.

Perhaps so, it is a good thing. Some priests make mistakes and others are dissenters.

And yes, as you observed, speaking and even singing in tongues is an aspect of their spirituality. As in many charismatic prayer groups, anti-Catholic pentecostals had infiltrated the music ministry which you joined. They put receiving Jesus in the spirit and the laying on of hands as something akin or even more important than sacramental baptism. You could hardly condemn the true Church for these happenings. As for the book given you on the subject, it was written by pentecostal Episcopalians, not Catholics!

I never said it was written by a Catholic, nor was the Charismatic group I was in ever believed in "receiving Jesus in the spirit." I was told the gospel of how I could have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I was told how He died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and raised on the third day. I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour that evening. I realized I needed a Saviour. My life has not been the same since. Though I may have been messed up doctrinally (through lack of Bible study because I placed my trust in man's opinions), I would never trade or deny Jesus my Lord.

You also talk about "sacramental baptism." If you read your Bible, you will find that "city water" does not cleanse anyone from sin, nor does "city water" place them into the "True Body Of Christ" (city water may put one in the Catholic Church, but not in the Body of Christ).

Mrs. Hooper, you are still "messed up doctrinally". I am not sure what you mean by "city water". Philip baptized the Ethipian Eunuch so that he might be a member of the community of faith and a disciple of Jesus. It is no wonder that you deny the value of baptism given that you reject the authority Christ gave the Catholic Church: "And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age'" (Matthew 28:18-20).

As for your bible study, how do you know that you are not still falling for false doctrine?

Because I take the time to study my Bible (2 Tim. 2:15).

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The citation here does not support individualistic or personal interpretation of the bible. The Catholic Church is the Mother of the Bible and her leadership serves a purpose analogous to the Jewish community of old over the Hebrew Scriptures. The Holy Spirit protects the bishops so that the true meaning of Scripture will not be lost. If you look closer at 2 Timothy, you would find support for this,"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Timothy 2:1-2).

These failthful men are still with us today, the bishops and priests of the Catholic Church. Can you trust yourself as an infallible authority in this regard?

I never trust myself as an infallible authority, I trust in God's infallible word.

Ridiculous! Even the person or persons who translated your bible, picking one word over another, etc. did some level of interpretation. We all bring something to the bible. The bible does not interpret itself. At one time there was not even a complete New Testament. The Church proclaimed the Good News all the same.

Ah, how little you still know . . . It is not surprising that those who disagreed with the priest went off and started their own church. That is what the early Protestant reformers did and, if you think about it, you too fell in step with this rebellion against the true Church.

If there is anyone or anything in rebellion to what you call the "true Church," it would be God Himself! God is against such a whorish system. My final authority in all matters of faith and practice rests upon God's Holy word. Apparently, many others have discovered, through reading their Bible, the simple gospel of Salvation. The gospel truth, revealed to them through God's word, burned in their hearts the fact that salvation is merely by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8,9) and not by works.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" -Rom. 3:24

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." -Rom. 6:23

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." -Rom. 8:1

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

We are to be new Christs. It is not I who lives, but Christ who lives in me. The works of Jesus have merit. Thus, what Christ accomplishes in us has value.
The Catholic Church is historical Christianity. Condemnation of the Church as "whorish" is akin to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came upon the infant Church on Pentecost; the Spirit inspired the authors of the New Testament and guided the Church in collecting books and letters for the bible; the Spirit protects the Pope and the bishops in union with him from falling into error regarding faith and morals. The Church has preached the Word of God for 2,000 years.

The dismissal of obedience and the value of works is itself a violation of biblical truth.

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, but it does not say FAITH ALONE.

Yes, eternal life is a free gift from God. This is also Catholic teaching.

You should know this if you were really an informed Catholic. Men of the spirit, as I explained before,are believers who place a greater value in the treasures of the kingdom than in anything the flesh and world can offer. Here too we find the Catholic claim. The Catholic teaching regarding the value of works does not imply any kind of crass pelagianism. Why would you accuse the Church of a heresy she has long condemned? The answer is simple, you do not know better. Anti-Catholics got ahold of you after your defection and somewhere along the line you joined their number.

The fact that the priest allowed no disagreement regarding Mary, confession, the intercessory role of saints, etc. did not in itself signify that the bible contradicted these stances. Again, the matter of authority emerges. You were taught that salvation came through the Church and yet you deemed the friendship with those who maligned the Church as something equivalent to this great gift. What a pathetic story about a lonely girl. It is indeed quite sad. Your conscience would urge you to renewed fidelity to the Church, but the seed to future dissention had been planted.

The Bible does not teach that salvation comes through the Roman Catholic church, nor is the "true church" the "Roman Catholic church." According to the Bible, the "True Church" consists of all born again believers, and Christ being head of that body. (Luke 24:39, 1 Cor. 15:50, 1 Cor. 10:17, Eph. 1:22,23, Eph. 5:30, 1 Cor. 12:12-14)

The Catholic Church is the sacrament of salvation, the mystical body of Christ. Jesus founded one Church and he gave it structure and sacraments. Scripture makes this very clear and the Acts of the Apostles, Epistles, and various extra-biblical documents from the period substantiate this. There were no Baptists in the first century, nor anything similar to them. All the Apostles became Catholics and were the first bishop-priests of the Church, the New Zion, the New Jerusalem, the new People of God. The earliest Christians did not use the term "Catholic" but this designation "universal" would eventually become the Church's proper name.

You moved and drifted into other charismatic Catholic communities. You were married in the Church. The Word of God community experienced a "going of separate ways" over the concern of excessive control over members. All this has been played out before in such groups. God blessed you with four children and you had them reborn in the gift of Catholic baptism. However, your failth weakened and you stopped going to Mass.

None of my children were "reborn in the gift of Catholic baptism." As I have stated before, city water does not save anyone. City water does not make one born again, it does not cleanse anyone from sin, nor does city water place anyone into the Body of Christ (getting wet may put one into the Roman Catholic Church, but not into the body of Christ).

I do not have your testimonial before me. If they were baptized, then they were indeed made members of the Catholic Church, inheritors of the kingdom of heaven, and adoptive children of our heavenly Father. The Church has the right to understand her sacraments accurately as they have been passed down to her. You may regret what you did, but the deed was evidently done. This expression "city water" must be a new slur that anti-Catholics have invented. As a believer, I reflect upon my baptism at childhood and acknowledge it as the greatest day of my life. It was the day I became a Christian!

Despite this loss of faith, you attempted to teach and to defend the faith to others. However, your errant bible study led you to dismiss the Catholic faith and her teachings.

Not only did God's word lead me to dismiss the teachings of the Roman Catholic church, He also led me to get out of it.

As for "defending the faith" of others. The only faith I will defend is that which is handed down to me in God's Holy Scriptures.

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." -Jude 1:3

Even the devil is learned of Scripture and can quote it. Ministers disagree with each other about all sorts of passages. Bible study groups expell members for not thinking the way of the leader or the majority. The fragmentation of Protestanism can be traced back to the fact that the bible cannot interpret itself in an infallible way. Your problem is not just with Catholics, but even with other Protestants who might approach the bible differently. If personal interpretation was truly protected by the Spirit, all well-meaning believers who read the bible would be in total agreement. Such is no where the case. The Scriptures are handed down in the Church, not simply to individuals.

The Church protects and hands down the deposit of faith given us by the Lord and the apostles. It is this deposit "which was once for all delivered to the saints." The reference here is not about the bible but about Jude's letter itself. It is the proclamation of faith (written and unwritten) that he is talking about. Jude's words might be played against you: "Yet in like manner these men in their dreamings defile the flesh, REJECT AUTHORITY, and REVILE THE GLORIOUS ONES" (Jude 8). Separated from the teaching authority of the Church and the true deposit of faith, "these men REVILE WHATEVER THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and by those things that they know by instinct as irrational animals do, they are destroyed" (Jude 10). We also read: "But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; they said to you, 'In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.' It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, pray in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And convince some, who doubt; save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spooted by the flesh" (Jude 17-23). Revelation ended with the death of John the beloved Apostle. There are no new doctrines. The Church has consistently taught the same faith for two thousand years. Those who oppose it are the scoffers of the endtimes.

You decided to become a Protestant.

Nay, rather I decided to believe the Bible and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. (John 3:16, John 1:12, Acts 16:30.31)

No, you became a Protestant. The verses you cite were written by Catholics (under divine inspiration) for Catholics. Citing a verse does not make your point-- unless you change or distort the meaning of Scripture to fit your agenda.

This statement is not malicious. You may believe in good faith acording to the tools you have at hand that you are right. But, it is my contention, and a billion Catholic Christians, and at least a couple hundred million Orthodox believers, that you are in error.

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." But notice that this belief, as Catholics say, is not simply a faith profession but the obedience demonstated and realized in works: "And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL. For every one WHO DOES EVIL hates the light, and does not come to the light, LEST HIS DEEDS SHOULD BE EXPOSED. But HE WHO DOES WHAT IS TRUE comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that HIS DEEDS have been wrought in God" (John 3:19-21).

John 1:12 - "But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave the power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Yes, the Church fully believes in the regenerative power of faith in Jesus. However, note that the early Church also practiced baptism, seeing it as a sacred sign of accepting Christ and being made adoptive sons and daughters of the Father. Note the context and that only a few verses separate this text from the scene of Christ's baptism by John the Baptist in the Jordan. John baptized for spiritual repentence and for preparation for the coming Messiah. Jesus' baptism is a theophany in which his identity is acclaimed as the Lamb of God and Son of God. Christians celebrate the baptism of the new dispensation. John says this about Christ and the new baptism, "this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit" (John 1:33). Just as the Spirit hovered over the waters of creation in Genesis, now this same Spirit comes upon the waters of baptism and believers are born again in Christ. History proves that all the Christians of the first century practiced baptism. It is still the practice of the Church and has essential value.

Acts 16:30-31 - "And he [Paul] lived there two whole years at his own expense, and welcomed all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ quite openly and unhindered." I fail to see how this quote helps your argument. Paul was an Apostle and priest of the Catholic Church. His narrative of the Lord's Supper in his letter to the Corinthians were the exact words he used in offering the Eucharist. Paul will suffer as a prisoner in chains, and eventually both Paul and Peter would suffer martyrdom under the Romans. The successors of Peter and Paul in the eternal city are the bishops of Rome. Ah, alas, you have proven my point. You would deny the authority of the Pope because in practice you have made yourself your own Pope.

Instead of conforming your mind and will to that of Christ and his Church, you sought out a community that reflected your views and feelings. In other words, you got matters backwards.

[See Part 2 for Continuation of Debate]